Can you get an injunction against magic?
Donny Blaze and his hype-man, Cornelius, are presenting magic shows using the mystic arts that Donny learned in his one week at Kamar Taj. Wong is not happy about it and hires She-Hulk to stop him using the courts. (Although, the shadow dimension was offered up by Wong as an extrajudicial alternative.)
We were just as happy as the rest of the MCU watchers on the Madisynn/Wongers BFF coverage and we’re excited to see the potential for the “Big Bad” on the show, Titania, using Intellectual Property Law to strike at the heart (and name) of She-Hulk.
Listen on mobile platforms: Apple Podcasts | Spotify
Don’t threaten your opponents with demons
While Jennifer Walters seems to be coming into her own in her role as She-Hulk, Attorney at Law, we did notice that she may be too eager to use her SuperHuman status to threaten legal opponents. We hope that Jen will rely more on the legal system, and not hold demons over other legal parties to get them to sign settlement agreements.
GLK/H Technology – Heavy use of MS Office
At the encouragement of our friend Sarah Glassmeyer, we look into the type of technology at GLK/H. So far, it looks like they are a “Windows Shop” with Microsoft Windows and MS Office. We do get a look at Jennifer’s “To Do List.” How would you like to be a Summer Associate in the SuperHuman Law Division of GLK/H?? Apparently, Jen will be interviewing law students for those positions. Along with her other 91 tasks on that to do list.
Everyone would be disbarred in this show
All in all, this was a fun episode, but we go through a list of legal practice issues that just wouldn’t fly in the real world. But then, that’s why this is the MCU/Disney+, and not the real world.
Share this with friends, and don’t forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform.
Stay Super Everybody!!
Greg Lambert 0:00
So imagine running a superhuman law division of a law firm. That’s exactly what we’re going to talk about here. And we’re going to start off the series by reviewing the new She Hulk Attorney at Law show on Disney plus. So we’re gonna dive into Episode Four. Is this not real magic? I’m Greg Lambert, and alongside my superhuman law division co counsel, Joshua Lenon. Hey, Joshua with the only two “n’s” exactly where you think.
Joshua Lenon 0:48
Oh, I love that call out. That’s a great reference. So this episode. Hi, great. It’s great to be here.
Greg Lambert 0:54
Let’s jump in. First of all, I think we were talking a little bit before the show that this may have been somewhat of a of a downer episode, as far as is content still of the show overall, but maybe my least favorite what what did you think overall, Joshua?
Joshua Lenon 1:14
Yeah, I think I don’t want to knock the show. But I think from a legal issue spotting perspective, this show was a mess. It did not actually, I think, characterize both the legal process, the legal system, and the legal issues in a way that made sense to me as a lawyer.
Greg Lambert 1:32
Yeah, this one felt pretty sloppy. Like I said, I still liked the show. It’s a fun show. And I think for what it’s advertised it, it hits the marks on there. But I would like to see a little bit more of a tightening up on the legal stuff. But let’s jump into the episode itself if you want and we can talk about Danny Blaze and magic act.
Joshua Lenon 1:56
The central conflict comes from this stage magician Donny Blaze, who is very clearly meant not to be a sympathetic character. So he does sleight of hand does not do it. Well, no. And And in a world where you have people flying around in suits of high tech armor, and you have wizards actually battling it out in Central Park in New York City, with their little flying clothes, sleight of hand is just not cutting it with the audience. So we get an unusual moment where it turns out Donny Blaze the stage magician knows real magic
Greg Lambert 2:41
Yeah, really interested because he’s got the the little ring.
Joshua Lenon 2:46
I think they called it the sling ring in the original Doctor Strange movie. And it sounds right.
Greg Lambert 2:53
And so it turns out he’s got one of those and can thus create some real magic specifically making portals into other dimensions. And I do have a have a side note that the actor that plays Cornelius is hype man. Yeah, the actor is actually 104 years old.
Joshua Lenon 3:14
Oh my gosh,
Greg Lambert 3:15
I want to look that good when I’m 104. So yeah,
Joshua Lenon 3:20
I mean, that’s almost the entire history of film. Yeah. So what’s interesting about Donny Blaze’s stage show is that he then asked for a volunteer from the audience while he’s generating this portal.
Greg Lambert 3:35
And we are introduced to a interesting character for the show.
Joshua Lenon 3:39
Yeah, her name is Madisynn. She introduces herself and comes across as very intoxicated. Yes, a party girl is the stereotype. I think they’re they’re aiming for clearly. And she tells us that she spells her name, Madisynn with two n’s, and a y and not where you think.
Greg Lambert 4:02
And it’s true. It’s in fact, I laugh because later you see someone that’s writing her name down and then when she spells it, he scribbles it back out and has to re-write it.
Joshua Lenon 4:12
Oh, that’s funny. I missed that little.
Greg Lambert 4:16
So with Donny and his magic act, he asked for the volunteer we get to Madisynn with two ends in a while but not where you think he first does some regular magic. And then that’s not hitting it with the with the crowd. So as hype man Cornelius is saying do the thing. Do the thing. So he whips open a portal and or Madisynn falls into the portal. Yeah. And that’s kind of where we start the show. So what legal issues do we have here in this opening scene?
Joshua Lenon 4:52
Well, one of the problems I had with this episode is they didn’t really show what happened in the act after he opened portal we then see as a consequence later. And so what happens is Madisynn ends up falling out of the sky upon Wong, the master of the Mystic Arts The Sorcerer Supreme. As he settles down to watch The Sopranos. Yes, he’s very clearly having some me time. And out of the sky falls, an intoxicated Madisynninto wherever he is in Nepal. And he immediately knows that this is Donny Blaze’s fault. Yep. This is not something that is a singular event. Yep. So from a legal perspective, though, we don’t really know. Like, how did Madisynn end up falling from the sky? Because we don’t see. Does she agree, for example, to be a part of what is very clearly real magic. Now? We know she volunteered for a stage magic show. But then once the portal opened, did she agree to walk in it? Did she agree to be teleported all the way to Nepal? Like none of these things are shown. And so from a participatory perspective, we don’t really know if there’s the concept of assumption of risk.
Greg Lambert 6:15
Yep. And add to that the fact that she’s clearly inebriated,
Joshua Lenon 6:19
clearly enumerated right and so does she have the capacity to contract an agreement to participate in a risky endeavor? Yeah, all of these are issues that were not explored in this episode. Yeah,
Greg Lambert 6:32
I thought I found it interesting. I kind of took some leaps of faith here, when she popped into Wong’s house. And a couple of things that I noticed is one, she’s holding a heart that’s kind of still beating. And the other is she doesn’t know where she is. Again, Wong knew almost immediately who was behind this. Yeah, so there’s there’s an issue I want to bring up later. Regarding Huang’s culpability in this whole thing.
Joshua Lenon 7:04
I agree with you. And there’s one other thing, Madisynn mentions that she had to sell, like some of her blood or part of her soul, six drops of blood, yeah, with some demon in order to actually be sent to walk. So there’s this stop along the way, where Madisynn had to enter another contract. Right? Well, whose outcome we do not know. Will it be something that pops up in a later episode or not? Yeah. Like this woman has been through a lot. Yeah, yeah. And in the episode, she keeps her spirits up, but oh,
Greg Lambert 7:35
yeah, she, she She’s definitely the party girl. Now there was one more side issue that I wanted to talk to you about. And now it was, you said that Wong was settling in to watch an episode of The Sopranos. And I want to know, if he can bring some type of suit against her for spoiling that episode. And just ruining the experience of that particular episode, which has a major death and any cause of action there, Joshua.
Joshua Lenon 8:06
So sadly, nah, there’s really no cause of action there. Spoilers one? Yeah, she didn’t know if he’d seen it before. It’s something that’s been out for a long time. There really is no legal recourse for long on spoilers. Just as our listeners will have no legal recourse, but the spoilers were given on this episode, you
Greg Lambert 8:28
should definitely watch the episode before you listen to this. So the next scene is Jen is talking with her dad about the attack from the Wrecking Crew. And I wanted to pick your brain on this. Yeah. Now as an officer of the court, which I think is and I don’t know exactly what the rules are in California, but I know that members of the bar have certain ethical duties when it comes to illegal activity. And so Jen admits that even though she was attacked by four men, she did not report this to the police. Yeah. Is there any do you know if there’s any kind of ethical duty or legal duty for a lawyer who has some type of criminal activity such as an assault if they don’t report that?
Joshua Lenon 9:22
Well, the duties around lawyers tend to have to do with the responsibilities towards clients and being officers of the court. And so in this particular instance, there, there wasn’t a client involved. She was not knowledgeable about an upcoming crime or a future crime that will be happening, lawyers do have a responsibility to report those. And there was nothing involved in terms of candor of a court issue withholding facts from a court. So Jen may not have the duty to report this to the police. Now that does not mean There aren’t legal issues involved with not reporting into the police, for example, her dad actually comes to do like an upgrade to her home security. And Jen might have the ability to claim certain deductions based on that, right? Like, there’s a threat. They’re reacting and spending this money because of a threat. And so if she’s looking to maybe, like pass it on to her insurance providers, or to look and see if there’s any appropriate state, or federal tax deductions that might come from this, the fact that she did not file a police report, actually can be used against her to deny that claim, or insurance may require that proof, or the the tax itself a tax deduction may require proof of crime, and now future prevention of crime. And so the fact that she didn’t report it doesn’t mean there aren’t legal issues. It’s just where those legal issues appear and kind of approach from might differ. Yeah,
Greg Lambert 11:05
I bet people listening to this show did not think we were going to get into insurance and tax codes.
Joshua Lenon 11:12
I’m no expert. I just I know the top of the top of it. Yeah, that’s all I can tell your local attorney up.
Greg Lambert 11:17
I wanted to talk a little bit about because Sarah Glassmeyer, who’s a friend of mine, and I think of yours, yeah, well,
Joshua Lenon 11:25
Amazing Law Librarian.
Greg Lambert 11:27
Absolutely. What she brought this up on Twitter this week, asking if we had talked about any of the technology that’s being used at G L, K, and H
Joshua Lenon 11:36
still a very limited amount. Yeah, perfectly honest. Yeah.
Greg Lambert 11:39
Quite frankly, the only technology I’m seeing is Microsoft Windows based laptops or desktops, regular monitors, we did get a peek at some throughout the show of the screens. And I’m seeing almost exclusively Microsoft Office, whether it’s Word or Outlook. The one thing that we saw a lot of on this episode was Microsoft’s To Do List, which I think she was using, not in OneNote, but rather in Outlook, that she had that on there. And Joshua, I did not see Clio at all.
Joshua Lenon 12:22
No, yeah. And so listeners may not know, but I am the lawyer in residence. For Clio we build software for law firms. But we are not on this show. So there’s no conflict of interest here. I think the fact that we’re seeing windows, though, is actually true to light. Yeah. If you look at most surveys of lawyers who use technology, most of them are using PCs. The vast majority of them are using Windows on that PC with Outlook. And then if we move into larger law firms where they have structured technology environments, the law firm exclusively uses Windows and Microsoft Office as their drafting tools, then they may have add ons on top of that. They use Microsoft exchange for their email servers almost exclusively. The one place where they go outside of that ecosystem is when we talk about mobile phones. And then we find in the US anyway, there is a preference amongst lawyers for iPhone. Yes,
Greg Lambert 13:27
yes. Yeah. The one app that she had on her computer that I don’t think was sanctioned by the firm was the matcher app.
Joshua Lenon 13:40
Yeah, so that was on her phone, right?
Greg Lambert 13:42
Oh, that was actually on her. She had it on her phone. The website, but she was she was setting up her profile on her computer now could have been a website. So if it was a website, that’s, you know, it’s kind of hard, a little harder to control that. But
Joshua Lenon 13:58
no filtering at the GL K, and H is virtual network. Yeah, there’s a lot
Greg Lambert 14:03
of things if I if I go on my firm’s network, and I go to certain sites, one, I may either be completely barred from going to that site based on security preferences, or I may have to click a button that says, you can go here, but we’re tracking that you’ve gone here. And if something goes wrong, you’re on your own, we’re not going to you know, we’re going to show that you went outside our rules. So good luck. We’re not going to stop you. But we’re not going to support this either.
Joshua Lenon 14:36
Yeah, and a lot of that, interestingly, comes from clients imposing security standards on law firms, as we know that an increasing number of law firms are getting asked about do they have mobile device management? Do they have whitelist and blacklist for IP access? Do they have certain types of filtering to prevent things like malware from being installed by visiting the wrong websites. What I think is interesting is there is a need, sometimes for lawyers to visit wide variety of locations on the internet as a part of researching the issues involved in their particular cases. Right? If you are helping people with Cryptocurrency you may be visiting like these Cryptocurrency website, yes and using wallets that are produced by these third party services. And that’s something that a law firm should be worried about, right? What’s being installed? How is it being used, but at the same time, it might be a part of your practice, and you really have to find a way to balance the risk and the access in the law firm. Yeah,
Greg Lambert 15:44
well, we did get a look at Jennifer’s to do list. I will tell you she had 92 tasks on there, which are way too much. But I isolated some of the legal tasks that she had. Do you want to want to run down through some of those with me with them? Yeah. All right. So top of the list was to call a meals, which is Blonsky, the abomination call his parole officer and finalized his injunction, the conditions of his release. Yeah, well, she’s creating guidance for the inhibitor that they’re going to make him wear. So pretty interesting. As far as blonde skis case. The next thing on the list that I saw, she has to interview summer associates. And she’s got a sad face next to that, but then she also has to plan summer associate outings. And she has a happy face to that. So anyone that’s worked in a large law firm, they know that they go out and recruit first year and second year law students last law school being three years here in the United States. And so in between their first year and second year, and their second year and third year, they may be invited to work at the law firm as a summer associate. And then once they’re there, typically there’s a lot of fun activities that go on during the summer, because they want to wine and dine the summer associates so that they feel like they’re part of the origin of the firm. And also that the firm is a fun place to be some other things that she had with Runa are shapeshifter. There’s a couple of things is that there’s a Alyssa says IP research for Ms. Pete And Ms. Pete has actually Megan the stallions real last name. Oh, okay. So we called
Joshua Lenon 17:49
it it will be it will be IP related to all the trademarks that she owns. So So one of the interesting things about that is because Runa has lost the case in the previous episode, she has been found guilty of fraud and impersonating Meghan the stallion that now becomes evidence that Jen could use in future proceedings against Runa. And you’ve already been found to be doing this activity. Do you know there’s judicial record? So I don’t have to establish that now. I can just point out to the court that you’re still doing it. And now we’ve got a different plaintiff around the same set of facts. So she gets to kind of keep milking it.
Greg Lambert 18:33
There’s a couple of things that are tied together here. Remember the seven soulmates for Blonsky Yep, she has on her to do list to follow up with Blonsky soulmates but then and this isn’t on her to do list but when she pulls up the the her dating app matcher there’s a QR code
Joshua Lenon 18:53
Oh, is there an Easter egg?
Greg Lambert 18:54
and I clicked on that QR code. And it takes you to a comic book and online comic book for West Coast Avengers number four. And the title of that comic book is gather now we Seven Brides. Whoa. And it turns out that the Seven Brides in the comic book are actually She Hulk Susan Richards and they’re all superheroes dagger from cloak and dagger storm from the X-Men.
Joshua Lenon 19:26
And it sounds like there’s a creepy setup happening there, unfortunately.
Greg Lambert 19:29
I think we may see the seven soulmates at another time,
Joshua Lenon 19:34
That was a clever easter egg.
Greg Lambert 19:36
Well done. The other legal things that she had was she had a meeting with Holloway at lunch and then a late afternoon meeting with with Mallory in her office. One last thing while we’re still in her office before Wong appears, is that one of her interviews on the news networks kind of these TMZ type shows that They’re in Los Angeles. She’s asked the question of how she comes up with the name She Hulk. And there’s just a little blurb that says, Oh, it’s a funny thing I didn’t. And we’ll touch on that at the end. But we’re interrupted on that because one shows up in her off
Joshua Lenon 20:18
in the glowing portal. Yeah, so portals are a big part of the special effects for this episode. And Wong is looking to hire Jen Walters to represent him against Johnny Blaze. So we find out the Donny Blaze actually was a student of the school to which now Wong is the head of failed out, apparently very quickly, but took enough of the basics and the ring, the little sling ring that we talked about before with him, and is now using these in a way that was described as dangerous to the integrity of the universe. And so he wants Donny Blaze to stop using real magic, which leads us to the courtroom scenes that we see later on in the episode. And so the first move that should have been done is that Jen should have signed Wong up as a client, run the conflict check to see if there were any issues within the law firm, especially their superhuman law division, that might impact their ability to represent long. And then third, figuring out how long is going to pay because Wong has been traditionally shown to not really function in the same fiscal realm as everyone else. An example is he was trying to go buy a What was it like a turkey on rye or something, some sandwich from a deli in New York, and Dr. Strange asks ‘hey, you go any cash?’ and Wong very clearly lives. Not in the realm of the material world. It was my takeaway from that. Yes. And so if I’m going to be representative Wong, I need to figure out how I’m getting paid. And that was totally skipped over. They didn’t do any of that in this episode. And it would have been nice to figure out does GLK/H accept Indian Rupees as a currency? What’s going to be their exchange rate calculation? Is there a barter involved? Most people don’t know this. But lawyers can accept barter as payment for legal fees, so long as they aren’t deemed unreasonable. So maybe if Wong brought in like a giant diamond, and offered to pay with that the law firm could accept it, but they might have to have it appraised. Figure out its actual fair market value, and see if the legal services in question might be less than that value. And if so, maybe they could hold the rest of it in trust. I’m doing air quotes for the people who can’t see it home for future legal services on behalf of the sorcerer supreme, or Yeah, some type of refund. But none of this is covered. So we have no idea how Jen is getting paid if she’s getting paid for the work that comes later. Yeah.
Greg Lambert 23:11
So he is asking that She Hulk needs to basically make an example out of out of Donny Blaze. I keep wanting to say Johnny Blaze, who is the Ghost Rider. But apparently at this point, it note no relation, but no relation. He wants Jen to, “set a precedent that no unlicensed person ever attempt to practice the Mystic Arts again.” And then Jen goes through a client interview where she basically walks through some very simple steps because she was like, Oh, well, on the surface, it sounds like it should be, you know, a pretty easy case. Let me ask you a few questions. Did you have him sign a nondisclosure agreement or an NDA or a non compete agreement
Joshua Lenon 24:08
of which they have none? Yeah.
Greg Lambert 24:12
The next question was, was there a contract when Donny Blaze began his training at Kamar Taj, and Wong says,
Joshua Lenon 24:25
Greg Lambert 24:27
And then he did say that all students make a pledge to the Mystic Arts, and she’s a great, did you get that in writing? And of course, no. So this school doesn’t seem to have a huge administrative department.
Joshua Lenon 24:47
That definitely seems to be the case. And we know from existing case law, that things like an honor pledge as a part of a school’s documented enrollment process can be brought to bear as a part of conflicts that arise in education environment. And so the lack of what we might consider traditional documentation, right? They swear to magic magic can’t really appear in the courtroom to our knowledge and testify whether this is a valid oath. So Wong is bringing a really difficult case in that there isn’t really documented evidence that Jennifer Walters can use to support the claims that this is unlicensed magic. Yeah.
Greg Lambert 25:36
But Jen does go ahead and craft a cease and desist letter against right Blaze. And
Joshua Lenon 25:43
So I think Donny Blaze responds to it in the only fashion that is appropriate. And that is he, he just basically makes it disappear. Right? So within legal circles, cease and desist letters have a place, right? It’s a great way to try and do an end run around the court process, right? If your client is asking you to prevent something that’s really illegal. Trials are expensive, they can be risky. And so a cease and desist letter is a great way to try and expedite a solution. Hey, we know you’re doing something bad. Here’s a reason you shouldn’t be doing that, fix it or we go to court. And that’s what a cease and desist letter does. But there are many times when cease and desist letters are used when there really isn’t a good thing to back them up. One of the most famous actually happened in the 1970s there was a fan wrote the the legal counsel the Cleveland Browns saying some of the fans in the stadium are throwing paper airplanes. I want them to stop immediately or I will sue. To which the lawyer wrote, dear, concerned fan, someone who is some asshole is signing your name to stupid letters I thought you should know. Sincerely. Look, Cleveland Browns legal counsel. And this This response is legend. Just legend amongst lawyers. Yeah, we all dream of the day where we can write back something as short and as witty and as compelling as this response to a cease and desist letter. And I think Donny Blaze without knowing it had the proper response. There isn’t a legal basis cited in this episode as to why Donny should not be doing the tricks that he’s doing. We aren’t showing the contents of the cease and desist letter to know what arguments are kind of being put forward by Wong and Jennifer Walters on why he should cease and desist. And so why do
Greg Lambert 27:52
yeah, my my thought on this and maybe we can get into it when we’re to trial. But the fact that Donny actually took the property of the school in a sling ring that and I think without the sling ring, he can’t open the portal. So it seems to me like the the more direct approach was to go after and repossess the sling ring. And yeah, so um, and in civil court or have him charged with theft. But I do like the scene where Donny Blaze says, you know, you you can’t own magic, you can’t trademark a spirit. You can’t register a soul. You can’t copyright art in which Jennifer’s that well, actually you can Copyright.
Joshua Lenon 28:46
That’s the whole point of copyright. Yeah. It actually does get into some interesting IP law questions there. So we know, for example, that Harry Houdini, one of the most famous magicians of All Times has existing patents on tricks that he created, right? And so he was able to take an illusion and patent the process of generating the illusion, not the illusion itself, but the mechanisms behind it. And you can potentially copyright certain performances of magic, yep, right. This is my magic show. Maybe you might not be able to defend the processes behind it, right? We use the video camera well, other people own the IP rights to video cameras, you don’t get to claim other people can’t use video cameras in their show or mirrors right mirrors just exist. Now there’s no IP law behind mirrors. But in this instance, we don’t really know other than having the ring and waving your hand in a circle what is involved in this? I think one was the wrong client. In this instance, what I think Jennifer should have done is brought Huang on as a client, and then had Wong finance a different type of lawsuit. And that is I would have brought Madisynn in and sued Donny Blaze for false imprisonment. Yes. Yeah. Which is a tort. Right? Yeah, we could have. And this becomes apparent later in the episode that Donny has been doing this repeatedly. It’s not just Madisynn with a why in two n’s, but not where you think. But other women have unfortunately been subjected to unwilling or unwitting teleportation via the use of this magic. And so you could have created wrongful imprisonment, or other types of civil claims against ani that may have had the impact of don’t use magic on drunk women. Yes. And set a precedent on that in a way that I think is much more legally realistic.
Greg Lambert 30:46
But instead, they filed a complaint and a motion for preliminary injunction, citing unfair competition, and even better, better, gross negligence, which the judge immediately her ears perked up and was like, You’re gonna have a hard time proving that? Do you even have a witness? And of course they do.
Joshua Lenon 31:10
You have here comes Madisynn. Yeah, I think there’s a lot going on, even prior to the scene. For one. I don’t even know how this made it to a courtroom. Right? Like, what what are they actually claiming is the standing here? And why didn’t Donny and Donny’s lawyer does not appear to be that experienced in litigation? Why didn’t Danny’s lawyer even actually just challenge whether or not there was actually a case to appear before the court? That would have been my first instinct here? Yeah. And then the preliminary injunction has a standard of are we preventing irreparable harm to one of the parties here? That wasn’t really something that was covered in the hearing, as presented so long is talking about the fact that Dani is destroying the fabric of the universe and riskiness, all, but there’s, there’s really no discussion of what does that mean? And how do we prove that? And is it Donny that’s doing it or anyone doing these types of things? And if so, why the heck are you giving out sling rings, but none of those were really issues involved in the injunction hearing. The other thing I want to point out is that as we’ve seen in previous episodes, the clients cannot shut Ah,
Greg Lambert 32:31
there’s one other issue that has kind of bugged me throughout the show. And that is, when in court, none of the attorneys stand up and address the bench. And that’s like, you know, first year law school, you learn about certain decorum that’s, that’s in every court and doesn’t matter. If it’s the, you know, the Night Court handling the, you know, the drunk tank, or the highest court in the land you stand when you address the court. And I’ve heard a number of people complain about this, that that’s, that’s an easy thing that the show should have cleaned up. As far as
Joshua Lenon 33:12
well, I can actually think of one reason why they’re not doing it. And that is the height difference between the actress and she Hulk as a character. And so I’m imagining that it’s much more difficult to animate. Tatianna. She is a relatively petite woman, she Hulk is, like seven feet tall, and intimating her standing is just a whole bunch of extra CGI. Yeah, yeah. And so I’m betting that’s why they do it.
Greg Lambert 33:43
And I have heard that they did reduce some of the CGI to cut down on cost for the show. So it’s very, very possible. So the the realities of Hollywood meet the decorum of courts. And it looks like Hollywood wins again.
Joshua Lenon 34:01
Yeah, but my takeaway for the listeners is if the judge addresses you, you stand stand
Greg Lambert 34:06
up. Yeah, like right away. Yep. The other thing that bugged me was when they did call Madisynn, of course, Madisynn was out partying again, and had a drink in her hand and again, was clearly drunk. Yes. And was still allowed to testify, even though she was, again clearly inebriated. Yes. I just don’t think a judge normally would allow testimony from someone who is clearly under the clearly
Joshua Lenon 34:34
intoxicated yeah, that definitely is problematic. And normally in a lot of litigation settings, you have to provide a witness list in advance, and yet they kind of well literally summon her out of thin air with no no proof of identity. Nothing I think so. You’re right. Yeah, that was a procedural Miss there. There
Greg Lambert 34:54
was a lot going on or not happening. Yeah, in that I do. like that she does describe a little bit more of her experience when she’s in the different dimensions. And that was that she escaped by making a pact with a demon whose name was Jake. And apparently Cornelius knew who Jake was. But that made me wonder, well, if Cornelius knew of Jake, in this other dimension, is there another level of culpability for this? And I do love the fact that Madisynn states that when asked if she was scared, or what was her emotional state at that time, she said, Well, at first, it was fun, and then it was scary, then it was fun again, then it was spooky, but in a fun way, which then immediately the defense comes in and says, See, magic is supposed to be spooky, but in a fun way,
Joshua Lenon 35:52
in a fun way. And I think that’s the scene that illustrated, alright, concrete harms, that that you could have potentially proved with Madisynn. And again, I’m stretching here, like, how do you prove somebody entered into a blood pack with a demon? But that seems to be a little bit more demonstrable in the rules of the setting, right? Where you can actually go visit the demon and have the demon come testify, as opposed to the fabric of the universe is at stake. Right. Right. And that’s why I think Wong, unfortunately was the wrong client for this.
Greg Lambert 36:30
Good. Yeah. The other thing that I noticed again, I swing in a mess on the court proceedings, the defense was not actually given a chance to to cross examine the witness. Yes, Jennifer, just as okay. You may you may step down, which again, I don’t think was her spot to do that. So
Joshua Lenon 36:49
yeah, just no further question a lot, a
Greg Lambert 36:50
lot going on. And then not to mention that the fact that the defendant had smoke bombs that he was letting off in the, in the courtroom
Joshua Lenon 36:58
repeatedly, repeatedly. That’s that should have been instant content. They should have been ejected from the courtroom, like at most, the defense counsel should have been allowed to stay and and Donny should have been kicked out of that courtroom so fast that we make his heads.
Greg Lambert 37:15
Absolutely. So the judge says that she is going to issue her ruling within a few weeks. She has Jen asked her for a preliminary injunction, which is denied.
Joshua Lenon 37:31
Because a night I think rightfully Yeah, there was no evidence of irreparable harm. Yep.
Greg Lambert 37:35
So and then afterwards, we hear one come up with again, and extra judicial remedy that he suggests, which is, you know, you could send them to the mirror dimension, and there’s a good chance that Blaze wouldn’t die. So, again, Jennifer’s shoots it down. Don’t tell your lawyer, you’re gonna kidnap someone. Exactly. So that would not help our case. So
Joshua Lenon 37:58
yeah, that is one of those incidents where Jen might have to report something to the authorities. So
Greg Lambert 38:05
Jennifer, again, I think this shows the amount of hours that attorneys work. During their job. It is not unusual for an attorney to work 6080 hour weeks, Jennifer calls Nikki at night to ask her to review a brief that she’s working on. And then Nikki reminds her that it’s Friday night, and that tomorrow is Saturday and that, you know, she’s not working on Saturday, but I think it does show, you know that you take that work home with you that you’re constantly even when you’re not in the office, you’re at you’re doing work. And then she goes on some blind dates and really bad one. Yeah, there was only one of those bad dates that I thought was interesting, which was the guy who kept asking her about her powers and whether or not Vibranium would penetrate her Hulk skin. So I’m wondering if that’s a one of the guys from the Wrecking Crew or friends.
Joshua Lenon 39:09
Yeah, the wrecking Crews was my thought as well. Yeah,
Greg Lambert 39:14
I think we’re going to see more and somebody is eventually going to figure out how to draw some hope blood along the way. So let’s get now to we’re back to Danny’s magic show toward the towards the end of the episode. And things just go terribly wrong.
Joshua Lenon 39:34
Yeah, the field student proves that he is not the master here. He tries to summon his portal trick again. And this instance, this is where we find out that he has been essentially kidnapping these volunteers off the stage and sending them to random places. Because another volunteer on stage says she will not participate in the trick because that’s exactly what happened to one of her friends. So Dawn He pushes it further and tries another little trick and ends up opening a portal to which monsters demons, some a horrible CGI effect comes out and and begins feeling the theater where people run and scream. And he is left trying to figure out how to solve this problem.
Greg Lambert 40:24
Yep. And so he does what any good student would do and and he runs to the teacher and ask for help. So he portals to Wong’s house again in a calmer Taj and asked for help. And then Wong agrees reluctantly to help him, it then tells him to call his lawyer.
Joshua Lenon 40:48
Yeah, yeah. And Wong then actually calls his lawyer interrupts her first, like, successful date, right, where she seems to be having a real connection with the person she’s seen. And she is forced to drop the social engagement in order to help her client out. And this is something that I think’s interesting. You know, a lot of people don’t realize how lawyers have to operate at the drop of a hat sometimes, right? Your client gets arrested at an inopportune time, or something comes to light that needs immediate attention, your clients will run to you. Yep, as soon as possible. They do not care about the lawyer’s personal boundaries. And Wong is an extreme example of that. But just like doctors on call or volunteer firefighters, right, lawyers sometimes have to deal with their professional life imposing upon their personal life. This was a great example of that.
Greg Lambert 41:47
She did say something really interesting when she’s fighting the demons. And that was she reminded Wong that, you know, these are technically billable hours. So I’m charging you good
Joshua Lenon 42:00
lawyer thing? Yeah. 100%. Yeah, even if we don’t know how long is paying, right, the fact that Wong has hired her services, and is still relying upon her to help solve this problem, a good lawyer bills, right, you shouldn’t undervalue your time.
Greg Lambert 42:17
And now I’m going to point out Jen being a bad lawyer, and that is, I don’t know if you want to take this, or you want me to take
Joshua Lenon 42:26
the resolution? Yes. Yeah. So eventually, with teamwork, Wong and She Hulk are able to corral all the summon monsters, and Wong injects them to someplace using magic. But before he gets the last one, Jen holds it over Donny Blaze and his lawyer and says, before I send this last one back, I could leave it here. Or you could agree to the terms of our cease and desist letter to which Donny Blaze is his height. Man. They both agree. And the last monster is ejected from this reality. And that is seen as the resolution to the court case. Now, can you settle a court case outside of the court? Absolutely. 100%. We see that happen a lot, where you will then as a joint filing approach the court and say we’ve reached our own resolution, we’d like to dismiss the case, the court most likely will ask for some evidence of that resolution, right? And they may take a look at it from a public good perspective on is this like really an adequate resolution or somebody pulling something shady, and then they’ll just sign off on it and close the case? And you’re done. But because Jen used this monster as an implied threat? Yeah, she’s creating basically a contract of adhesion. On Donny Blaze, it could be argued that the only reason they agreed to the terms of the cease and desist letter was because they were being threatened with physical bodily harm from a monster and a Hulk. Not that they were agreeing to a contract in principle. So that was absolutely a bit of bad lawyering never ever threaten the other side, because you’re only setting your client up for problems later.
Greg Lambert 44:23
Yeah, not cool lawyering. But I think at this point, probably Donny has decided that he’s not up to snuff for doing these portal tricks.
Joshua Lenon 44:34
Yeah, hopefully he’s he’s given up possession of his ring. And it’s no longer really a factor. Exactly. Right. But from a legal perspective, I thought this episode was a swing and a miss. Yeah, they didn’t really address handling was a client. They didn’t address the issues involved in the case itself, right. How really could you have used the legal system and the strategy behind the case that you’re presenting to to advance the best interest of your client. And in typical kind of comic book fashion, the resolution was violence as opposed to cleverness.
Greg Lambert 45:11
Yeah, there’s one last legal issue of the episode and we can we can wrap it up. And that is our, our friend Titania. There’s a story on the television of how all of the charges have been dismissed against her. So her legal team took care of her on that. And then we get a knock on the door after Jen’s date goes home. And it turns out, it’s a it’s a process server pretending to to give her a gift. But she immediately sees through that, but so what is the gift that the process server is giving her?
Joshua Lenon 45:53
Yes, so California does allow process servers to deliver documents on behalf of lawyers and their clients. You’re not really supposed to be tricking them into accepting it. But you can take advantage of certain situations, like the person being in public or having them open their door expecting a delivery, you don’t claim you’re making a delivery, but you know, wearing a brown shirt or brown cap people think ups. And the rules vary by state to state on this. So I’m not an expert on California’s but the document in question. The lawsuit, notice that she’s getting is that Titania is claiming that she owns the trademark to the term She Hulk. And as you mentioned, in that TV interview we saw previously in this episode, Jen comes out in claims she’d make it up. Somebody just called her that. So I think our next episode is going to be an interesting look into trademark law. And will Jen Walters end up having to start paying royalties for the use of the term she HK as a part of her official duties to Titania. And that is the type of arch villain I want for a superhero lawyer. As as I want the arch villain who was like I entered a court of law and now you owe me lots of money.
Greg Lambert 47:22
I think that’s probably the best place to wrap this episode up this week. Did you have anything else Joshua?
Joshua Lenon 47:29
I just want to remind our listeners to stay super. And definitely remember that there are lawyers out there willing to help you. lawyers aren’t just limited to the superhero universe but are everywhere looking for clients that need their help.
Greg Lambert 47:44
Absolutely. All right. I will see you next week.